Saturday, July 31, 2010

An Unexpected Development in the Office of Worship!

Anonymous has written HERE:

"
Catherine Combier-Donovan, Coordinator of the Office of Worship, has resigned from her role effective August 13, 2010.".

July 30, 2010 9:51 PM

****************************************************


Has anyone heard whether this is accurate? It hasn't hit the Catholic Virginian yet!

34 comments:

Anonymous said...

Nothing will change under a new liturgical leader. The bishop is extremely pleased with the liturgical direction of this diocese and it will continue. The New Roman Missal will not be welcomed in this diocese and many priests have already indicated that we will continue with the status quo with or without the bishop. I think the bishop knows his limits and will not challenge his priests to follow any of the latest liturgical directives from the USCCB or Vatican. The Richmond Diocese is not much for Roman-style liturgy. We believe in inculturation and our local culture clashes with Roman-style liturgies. Thank God our Bishop is not following the USCCB and Vatican like we thought he would. Let's keep our local culture.

standing maryanna said...

Anonymous: What's your opinion on what the people think of the changes. I have attended a couple of different workshops on the changes and how to ready the people for them.

A major issue for me is that parishioners need to be catechized about these changes before they happen. I would not like to see the confusion that occurred with the VII changes 40 years ago.

I would prefer things remain as they are but I am also a realist... As far as the priests are concerned, I know not what they think so your comment about them was helpful to me...

Anonymous said...

Nothing will change in this diocese regarding the New Roman Missal? I beg to differ, it will change and it will be adhered too otherwise Bishop Di Lorenzo will be removed from this diocese. The priests who do not follow the directives of Rome will eventually be given parish assignments they would nor prefer. Like it or not we are still the Roman Catholic Church and if any priest or Bishop refuses to implement the changes they will cause a deep division in this diocese. It is not worth the aggravation nor the trouble disobedience to this directive will cause. Obedience may not be the absolute reason for their adherence to Roman Missal but the collection plate will certainly assist with overcoming their reluctance to implement. Many of my many very wealthy friends are committed to holding back their very generous envelopes if this diocese fails to carry out the directives of the USCCB. Further this is the era of technology, I hope no one is foolish enough to believe the people in the pews are as ignorant to what is occurring in our Church. People are Catholic for a reason, if you don't accept the teachings and authority of our church why stay? I am certain they would be welcomed buy other denomination that share their vision of Church. However, the Church still receives their directives from Rome if they are not adhered too especially concerning the Roman Missal they are in schism.

Kneeling Nick said...

The ship is sinking and everyone is abandoning it in droves. The crew instead of manning the pumps is arguing about whether we should have a conservative or liberal sunken wreck. If we want the Church in the US to be something other than what it is in Europe we need to shelve the ideology and get practical.

Anonymous said...

Nick, I assume you are talking about the Catholic Church when you say it is being abandoned in droves. True as some of that aspect maybe, it is not surprising the scripture is rather clear. However, I do agree with your premise of shelving the labels of liberal and conservative. Quite frankly I don't know how those terms came into being when applied to the Church. The terminology I prefer is AUTHENTIC CATHOLIC TEACHING. In regard to the Church it is either Authentic Catholic teaching or it is not. No grey area exists. Of course there are those who have placed themselves over the authority of the Church. Maybe those people should look elsewhere for their worship. People crave Authentic Catholic teaching and once the history, doctrine and catechesis are explained most people will either accept or leave the church but they go with knowledge of why various positions in the Church are held.. So why are we not asking our Bishops to do what they were invested to do, that is preach the gospel and teach the Authentic Catholic Faith.

Trust the Lord when the truth is proclaimed his Church will once again flourish. Fact is all the religious order who are teaching the Authentic Catholic Faith are growing in leaps and bounds. Don't believe me, here is one of many orders living the gospel life and practicing the true faith handed down to us by the Apostles under the auspice of the Holy Father.

http://www.franciscanfriars.com/vocations/index2.htm

Stu said...

Nick's recipe of "practicality" has been followed for the last 50 years and has given us failure after failure.

Holiness and orthodoxy attract especially in context of a deep belief in the Real Presence. Dioceses that have maintained this outlook are flourishing as are individual parishes.

Katie Beaumont said...

Although anon 1:22AM may be somewhat correct in his/her observations, I disagree. Just because this diocese shows a conspicuously flippant attitude towards Rome and Roman-style liturgies, does not mean it will always be this way. To be honest, I am not encouraged by what seems to be silence from our bishop on the matter. Has he or will he address the upcoming missal regarding chant and other changes? Has he/will he address the fact that many parishes continue to pour the consecrated "Precious Blood" from vessel to vessel? Does the bishop expect that the priests will miraculously follow the new missal even though most/many thumb their noses at the current translations? Will the bishop ever expect there to be any kind of liturgical uniformity across the diocese? Or has he buried his head in the sand in hopes that the Richmond diocese will miraculously align itself into liturgical uniformity?

Kneeling Nick said...

Stu is dead wrong. Practicality has not been the hallmark of the last 50 years. The last 50 years have been a war between various factions over who will define the true meaning of the Second Vatican Council. Liberals want to see it as a rejection of the Church's past practice and teaching, conservatives want to see it as a change that is real but is in harmony with the Church's past and traditionalists reject it as the triumph of the modernist heresy.

I myself tend to side with the traditionalists in general, but I think the leadership of all these groups are more interested in increasing their own power and influence than in helping the Church to be healthy and thriving.

What I mean by practicality is simply asking the questions: What works? What doesn't work? and Why?

I do not buy the argument that the only thing that is lacking is holiness and orthodoxy. Many Holy and Orthodox people dedicated themselves to the Legionaires of Christ yet they were dupes feeding the ego and power of an incredibly evil man. We have bigger problems than simple lack conviction.

Anonymous said...

go to your traditionalist church and leave the rest of us alone. i've been in the liturgy business for many decades and i'm not about to go back to the days of pray, pay and obey. i'm told i can't be a priest because god made me a woman but it's ok for bishops to protect pedophiles. we are church and we can't allow an all-male hierarchy tell us what to do when the spirit is moving us in a different direction. every time we celebrate, we become church. this is why we celebrate. this is why we believe. we celebrate! we believe!

Kneeling Nick said...

Who said go back to pray, pay and obey? I want to go forward based on a practical evaluation of what works and what doesn't. The cheap shots, soundbites and sloganeering by quoting from GLory&Praise has got to stop. I think changes need to be made in the Church's practice, but they must be consistent with the Church's tradition and grounded in real experience.

Stu said...

"We celebrate, We Believe" is not for real and likely someone just trying to stir up debate. No one believes such ridiculous stuff anymore but it does provide a indication of the "practicality" that gripped the Church for the last 50 years. That experiment is over and thank God for that. It was an abysmal failure leaving countless number of people poorly catechized, disbelief in the Real Presence and plummeting vocations. The Church is righting itself to what truly works and what gave us countless number of Saints in the past. Holiness and orthodoxy attract. Such is absolutely evident wherever it has been tried.

Anonymous said...

stu,
for your information i have been a minister of bread and minister of cup as well as a rcia and ccd teacher for more than thirty years. i've served on parish councils and i have even served at the diocesan level on a variety of committees with our former bishop (walter). as far as i'm concerned, i will not allow this new missal to make its way into my parish without some answers. as i have instructed my pastor, this new missal is only a suggestion. it is not a mandate from the vatican. my parish does not see the need for catechizing people on a missal which we do not plan to use.

standing maryanna said...

anonymous saud: "i have instructed my pastor, this new missal is only a suggestion."

Where could you have gotten that idea? And why does it appear that you determine what happens in your parish and not the pastor?

It's one thing being an ultra-progressive and another thing to be making up situations that beg your readers to suspend belief in what you are talking about...

Stu said...

Anon,

You are a fake. Your only purpose is to get people spun up with the 70s rhetoric.

Anonymous said...

i'm a fake because i don't accept your traditionalist all-male version of church. everytime i have visited this blog the same traditionalist characters (stu and standingmary) attack me, rather than offering logical reasons why i should want to go back to the days of pray, pay and obey. in the past, rather than a reasonable conversation, some of you have made light of serious discussions by threatening to throw holy water on me if i came to their parish. this is childish and i'd rather dialogue with thinking-catholics rather than a group of holier-than-the-pope traditionalists. you're doing just what yeti would want. in the meantime, i'm going to celebrate and believe while the rest of you march to orders of our all-male hierarchy. bye!

standing maryanna said...

Anonymous (celebrator) said:" everytime i have visited this blog the same traditionalist characters (stu and standingmary) attack me,"

It's really amusing that you consider me a traditionalist... (smile) when I am actually a left-leaning moderate. What you see from me is an attempt to host a blog that can accommodate all views.

If you think I strongly disagree with you, it is only because the arguments you use are not realistic.

I also wish that the new translation would not be implemented but that is not a realistic wish at this point in the process. I want to avoid the confusion that occured when the VII changes were implemented. The People of God need to understand the what and the why of these changes. I don't see how you can influence your priest not to follow the new guidelines. It will be his responsibility and he will have to answer to the bishop...

standing maryanna said...

Attention Anonymous 1:11 p.m.: For some reason your comment did not show on this page so I am placing it here now:

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "An Unexpected Development in the Office of Worship...":

Let us have this argument based on fact. If we proclaim to be Catholic then we must follow the directives of the Holy Father and the Bishops who are in union with him, this means shunning any teaching which is not handed down to us by the magisterium (liberal or conservative too use your terms) Authentic Catholic teaching is what must be pursued and preserved. When the Roman Missal changes so must ALL the parishes/priests accept and perform these changes, otherwise you are no longer in union with the Church. You may not like that fact you might even resent it. (as so many did forty years ago) If you are a Catholic then you will accept these changes as the will of God I further would like to submit the following for your information. May I also suggest you read the book of Genesis pertaining to obedience. Obedience to the will of the Father is something demonstrated by Jesus himself, even unto death. If we are his followers we will obey his magisterium and the Church instituted by Jesus himself. I will not serve is in direct opposition to everything taught by Him who we profess to follow. I submit the following concerning the recitation of the words concerning liturgical prayer.

http://www.nccbuscc.org/liturgy/q&a/mass/addword.shtml



Posted by Anonymous to Richmond Voices at August 9, 2010 1:11 PM

Stu said...

I say you are a fake because your viewpoints are so over the top and completely out of the mainstream that in my opinion that can't be real and I am left to believe that you are but a troll.

But prove me wrong. Tell us the parish you attend and the functions in which you officially serve.

I'm more than happy to share that I attend Saint Benedict's Chapel in Chesapeake and I head up the local Una Voce Chapter. You can go to the chapel on any Sunday and ask for "Stu" and people will point to me.

You?

Mark said...

While we eagerly await a response from "We Celebrate, We believe", please allow me to post this "Short take" from the current (August 9, 2010) issue of the Catholic Virginian:

"On the Feast of the Assumption, Sunday, August 15, St. Francis of Assisi Church in Amherst will host the Traditional Latin Mass (Extraordinary Form) offered by Father Neal Nichols, pastor of St. Benedict Chapel in Chesapeake and a member of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter.

The Mass at 4 p.m. will be a Missa Cantata (High Sung Mass) and will be followed by a reception. Interested clergy will be provided materials that will introduce them to how to say the Extraordinary form of the Mass."

Please see the Short Takes for POCs listed for this Mass.

I sincerely hope that our younger priests and seminarians will avail themselves of this opportunity. With God's grace the TLM is here to stay and grow, as it already is happening with gusto in the Diocese of Raleigh.

standing.maryanna said...

Attention Anonymous 1:11 p.m.: For some reason your comment did not show on this page this afternoon, so I am placing it here now:


Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "An Unexpected Development in the Office of Worship...":

Let us have this argument based on fact. If we proclaim to be Catholic then we must follow the directives of the Holy Father and the Bishops who are in union with him, this means shunning any teaching which is not handed down to us by the magisterium (liberal or conservative too use your terms) Authentic Catholic teaching is what must be pursued and preserved. When the Roman Missal changes so must ALL the parishes/priests accept and perform these changes, otherwise you are no longer in union with the Church. You may not like that fact you might even resent it. (as so many did forty years ago) If you are a Catholic then you will accept these changes as the will of God I further would like to submit the following for your information. May I also suggest you read the book of Genesis pertaining to obedience. Obedience to the will of the Father is something demonstrated by Jesus himself, even unto death. If we are his followers we will obey his magisterium and the Church instituted by Jesus himself. I will not serve is in direct opposition to everything taught by Him who we profess to follow. I submit the following concerning the recitation of the words concerning liturgical prayer.

http://www.nccbuscc.org/liturgy/q&a/mass/addword.shtml

WE CELEBRATE! WE BELIEVE! said...

it's not about me. it's about women. besides, if i reveal my parish, you'll come after my pastor who is very empathetic. i challenge all of you to remove your blinders and read mary daly's book, "beyond god the father". mary daly is not only a saint, but she is a priest, prophet and king. and to reiterate my views on this new and silly translation being forced on us by a bunch of old cranky men, they are the ones who are not obeying jesus. jesus welcomes all, not many! i'm going to follow jesus' teachings and those of you who are more catholic than the pope can keep genuflecting to symbols and mumbling in latin.

Stu said...

Nope. You aren't convincing. If you really did "Celebrate and Believe" in such things, you would gladly stand up and take credit. You're a fake. If you are trying to stir up trouble simply to stir up trouble, then shame on you. If you are really a Catholic with a more traditional mindset trying to mock the heterodox, then that is even worse. We don't need to resort to such tactics.

WE CELEBRATE! WE BELIEVE! said...

nice try to get my identity but it won't work because frankly, i don't care what you think of me. i know the the church is not open to the holy spirit's call for women priests right now and they'll have to answer for that. and as far as this new translation goes, we need to appeal to the bishops to halt the implementation of this new missal. it violates the constitution of vatican 2 and i will not passively sit back and take this. i have already wriiten many letters to the usccb's blc and i will not stop until this nonsense stops. come advent 2011, you can say "and with your spirit" all you want, but i'll be sure to continue the parts of the mass in the vernacular of my language and will not hesitate to continute to say "and also with you" and yes, i will continue to say "we" believe because the eucharistic celebration is a communal celebration, not a time for private deviation. we are church! we celebrate! we believe!

Stu said...

*yawn*

Anonymous said...

Onward and upward!!!

Combier-Donovan to head Office of Worship

Paulist Father John E. Hurley, executive director of the Archdiocese of Baltimore’s Department of Evangelization, announced the appointment of Catherine Combier-Donovan as the new director of the Office for Worship.

See there rest here:

http://www.catholicreview.org/subpages/storyarchnew.aspx?action=8563

standing.maryanna said...

Well, well, well... And WHY haven't we hear anything from the Catholic Virginian on her leaving????

Anonymous said...

Condolences to the Archdiocese of Baltimore....all that glittered is not necessarily gold...blessed now are the people of the Diocese of Richmond with the latest non news..this departure has been circulated on the prevailing winds of rumor control for at least three months...remember all the other folks who have recently been asked to leave the staff of the Diocese..it was only a matter of time

standing maryanna said...

This may have been rumored around the diocesan offices and among those-in-the-know in high places, but it obviously didn't make it to the Catholic Virginian!

But I agree, that there has been a huge house cleaning in the diocesan offices... is no one's job safe anymore?

Anonymous said...

Just maybe the Catholic Virginian prints only what it is allowed to print.......

standing maryanna said...

Anonymous, I'm sure that's true... But a shakeup in the worship office is big news...

Through the kindness of an anonymous soul, this blog received the info before the CV had a chance to print it... I would have thought that some news would have been in its recent issue... Hmmmmm...

Anonymous said...

Perhaps the laspse in timing of a CV or other local press release provided sufficient opportunity for securing another position to cover up the real reason for the departure

standing maryanna said...

Anonymous, you are implying something that we probably should not know about... Not a good idea to spread such knowledge or gossip...

Anonymous said...

It was more conjecture than an implication and why should we not know….what is being experienced at the Diocese is indicative of any organization – when a new leader arrives, there is often a change in staff particularly when there is difference of style with the previous leadership. However, in this case the staff position in question was put in place at the beginning of the new leadership. Perhaps, and this is another conjecture, history has repeated itself and there may be other rationale for what you are seeing.

Anonymous said...

known him forever. bigfoot is up to his antics again. this is getting delicious. i warned all of you years ago that once he went after sexual minorities, you'd be next. liturgy is not his thing. hehehehehehe