Sunday, March 20, 2011

Collective Bargaining, Republicans and the American Bishops

Katie left an interesting question in the comment box of a different topic. I hope she doesn't mind that I open a new topic using her words.

"Not to change the topic; but what are U.S. Bishops doing regarding the assault on the working class by politicians? Should Republicans be given a free-pass to allow middle income workers to be stripped of collective bargaining in an economy that is already squeezing out the middle class? Just because the Republican Party pays lip service and throws an occasional bone to prolife causes, the U.S. bishops should still have enough zeal on economic justice and policy no matter how prolife the politicians assaulting the middle class are! "

Any comments?

19 comments:

Kneeling Nick said...

This post is a joke. Most states are flat broke and deeply in debt. What is there to bargain for? Your share of the debt?

Stu said...

I think most Bishops are wisely staying out of the fray when it comes to warring parties that both have it wrong. Indeed, Wisconsin may be heavy-handed in their approach but the teachers union is absolutely broken in their approach and borderline corrupt.

Katie Beaumont said...

Imagine if our liberal friends dismissed a discussion on abortion based on the argument that religious communities have child molesters or rules that required people to be celibate. Come on. Surely you can do better than that. Short dismissive sarcastic comments don't contribute to the discussion...they just dismiss and sarcass.

Stu said...

Katie,

The comparison of greedy unions and governments that over-respond to them isn't even remotely related to infanticide which has killed over 50 million innocent children in this country since RvW. Let's not muddy the waters.

Fact remains the union in Wisconsin has not been acting good faith. Not being able to strike and knowing that all matters of disagreement ultimately go to arbitration, the unions have no interest in trying to strike any deals for as long as possible. Given the current budget realities (there is no more fake money to give out), such games aren't very helpful especially given that as public employees they are rather well compensated. Counter that with the private sector where employees have had to make concessions in order to keep their jobs.

Now, the state's response, while understandable, is heavy-handed and I don't agree with that either. Workers should have the right to collectively bargain. The answer is to make it legal for teachers there to strike (if such isn't the case). Then they are free to simply walk off the job en masse if the stakes warrant such.

Again, the Bishops I think realize that neither side is lily white here. Kind of like the situation in Libya where one of our "liberal friends" is getting us into his third war.

Katie Beaumont said...

Again, does the mere existence of abortion mean that we are to ignore issues pertaining to Social Justice until the abortion problem has been eliminated? So the poor and economically struggling middle class workers are of no concern until all abortions have been eliminated? Does it really have to be an either-or discussion? The Catholic Hierarchy should have the ability to walk and chew gum at the same time IN SPITE OF the lack of "lily white" human beings who suffer the consequence of the decisions of wealth politicians who only represent the concerns of the excessively wealthy. Remember, the question was: Should Republicans be given a free-pass to allow middle income workers to be stripped of collective bargaining in an economy that is already squeezing out the middle class? Just because the Republican Party pays lip service and throws an occasional bone to prolife causes, the U.S. bishops should still have enough zeal on economic justice and policy no matter how prolife the politicians assaulting the middle class are! I'm sorry if that rains on your Republican parade (oh yeah, you're an "independent", I forgot.)....an independent that just happens to know all the talking points of FOX news.

Stu said...
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Stu said...
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Anonymous said...

This post is a joke.

Stu said...
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Anonymous said...

My comments keep dissapearing only seconds after submitting them.

Stu said:

No, the mere existence of abortion does not mean that we are to ignore OTHER issues pertaining to Social Justice (of which abortion is one) until Abortion has been eliminated. Not one has asserted such. No one. However, you attempted to equivocate the issue of abortion with the matters going on in Wisconsin, not me. I simply pointed out the absurdity of such thinking. Abortion is clearly and undeniably the greater evil affecting our society with its very existence creating a mindset the encourages other affronts to social justice (contraception, unbridled use of Capital Punishment, greater use of military force for seeming every issue and other affronts on human dignity).

I have also pointed out that the situation in Wisconsin is more complex than the simply liberal mantra of “liberal, democrat union members good, conservative, republican management bad.” You really should get out of your party mindset. It simply clouds the mind in such things. Indeed, I am not a member of the GOP. In fact, I didn’t even vote in the last Presidential election. I am an independent voter with equal disdain for the Republicans and Democrats (who at the end of the day really want the same things). What about you? Still supporting YOUR President and his promise for “Hope and Change?” He started his third war, has decided to keep Gitmo open, has increased the use of unmanned attack drones, escalated Afghanistan all while spending our future generations in effective slavery. Where is your outrage against his Social Injustice? Must we fix the union problem in Wisconsin first before you go after such issues or was your disdain only for GWB when he did such things? Which party are you in again?

Then you follow it up with the “Fox News” cry. Katie, I don’t watch television. I have one. But we don’t have cable TV and it is so old that it won’t work with the new digital signal for airwaves. While in my vehicle, I listen to podcast of Catholic Answers or other similar presentations. So let’s dispense with such charges lest I conclude you simply get your talking points form MSNBC, CNN, Air America, daily emails from Keith Olbermann or the many other countless leftist new sources out there.

As to the issue, I have pointed out that both sides are wrong in this. And guess what? The Bishops agree. Here is a new article, from a Catholic source, that affirms what I have been saying:

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1100999.htm

For concerned Catholics that truly want to be informed and able to make independent decisions in accordance with Church teaching, I recommend the following:

http://distributistreview.com/mag/

http://www.amazon.com/Toward-Truly-Free-Market-Distributist/dp/1935191810

http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/Archives/2010-ferrara-church-libertarian.htm

Distributism is the answer. Catholics need to be informed and knowledgeable about its teachings that are based upon Church doctrine. The seemingly binary choices that society has presented in Capitalism and Socialism, the twin step-children of the Protestant “Reformation”, have only given us the mess we are in know and ultimately lead to the same outcome which is a ruling class that lords over the workers.

Anonymous said...

Katie,

I would love to provide you a response, but either blogger keeps deleting my posts or perhaps our hostess thinks my direct and challenging responses are too tough for you to handle (which would surprise me). Pity either way.

Perhaps I will post it elsewhere when I get home tonight and direct you there.

Stu

standing maryanna said...

I don't know why the posts are being deleted. I will check later tonight. Have to leave now for meeting...

standing maryanna said...

Blogger placed the missing comments in its spam folder. I have restored them for you. Stu, if you like, you can delete the comments that have been duplicated.

Stu said...

Thanks, Maryanna.

standing maryanna said...

To the commenters: If your post disappears, let me know and I will check Bloggers spam box.

I do NOT delete posts unless absolutely necessary... for instance, ruining of reputations and accusations... y'all know what I mean.

Stu said...

That's what I thought Maryanna, but I still wondered. I will have more faith in the future.

Anonymous said...

So where do you stand with this StandingMaryanna?

standing maryanna said...

I never argue politics or religion.

I only happily provide a place for you guys/gals to discuss religious-related issues. :)

Anonymous said...

New Topic: Does anyone know if the case of C.Porter Vaughn Inc. vs. Most Reverend Francis Xavier DiLorenzo has been resolved?